DC Animated Film Continuity

[DIrishB]

So I watched the new animated film by DC/WB the other day, called "Justice League - War". It's based on the New 52 JL arc with a few changes.

I enjoyed it. It's definitely worth a view.

Also, it kicks off a new shared continuity between the DC Animated movies put out. The plan is to release 3 animated films per year, of which two will be set in this new shared continuity and one will be a one-off set in its own continuity.

So "Justice League - War" was first, and in a few months "Son of Batman" will be released adapting Grant Morrison's run, and the trailer for it looks pretty fun.

The third film outside of this new continuity is called "Batman - Assault on Arkham" (and is set in the Arkham video game universe continuity).

Has anyone else checked out JL - War?

 

[wyokid]

I was absolutely appalled and insulted by this film. Especially the anti-transgender scene and the fact that in changing from comic to film they made the little girl who eats ice cream with Diana change from black to white. I already miss Bruce Timm.

 

[DIrishB]

I was absolutely appalled and insulted by this film. Especially the anti-transgender scene and the fact that in changing from comic to film they made the little girl who eats ice cream with Diana change from black to white. I already miss Bruce Timm.

The anti-transgender scene? Which one was that?

Are you actually being serious or is this more of your insanity like when you said Ultimates 3 was better than Ultimates 1 and 2?

While the film had its flaws, I enjoyed it. It was certainly heavy on action and light on character development overall, but it did a smart thing in choosing to focus a good majority of its character development on the lesser known characters like Cyborg and Shazam instead of the well known stalwarts of Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman.

The costume designs were all quite good (though largely inspired by the New 52 looks anyway, but there were some noticeable differences if I recall, and for the better), and the action and animation were well handled and smooth.

I'm currently watching the Timm/Dini series, and love those, but please don't make the mistake of thinking there's only one way of doing something. Granted the old 1990's/2000's DC Animated Universe is better overall, but it's also had exponentially more opportunity to create a better product through hundreds of television episodes and several films. We've gotten one 80 minute film so far in this continuity, and it was pretty decent.

Son of Batman looks like it'll be great fun, and will offer an opportunity to explore Batman's character and world more, while also being based (and pretty faithfully apparently) to Morrison's fantastic run.

 

[wyokid]

The anti-transgender scene? Which one was that

Spoiler

When the man admits to dressing up as Wonder Woman. We're meant to laugh at him and that really sat uncomfortably with me and I looked around and I'm not the only one who was upset by that scene.

Are you actually being serious or is this more of your insanity like when you said Ultimates 3 was better than Ultimates 1 and 2?

1. In my opinion The Ultimates 3 is better.
2. Absolutely.

While the film had its flaws, I enjoyed it. It was certainly heavy on action and light on character development overall, but it did a smart thing in choosing to focus a good majority of its character development on the lesser known characters like Cyborg and Shazam instead of the well known stalwarts of Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman.

Cyborg was in Teen Titans. I'll give Captain Marvel, but not Cyborg. Everyone I've ever talked to knows who Cyborg is even though they've never read a comic in their life.

The costume designs were all quite good (though largely inspired by the New 52 looks anyway, but there were some noticeable differences if I recall, and for the better), and the action and animation were well handled and smooth.

I found the costumes to be incredibly ugly, but I hate the New 52 costumes too so that is part of it. My original short review of this was

Justice League: War is one of the worst films I've seen in a while. Superman is a massively aggressive d-ck who just wants to hit things, Wonder Woman is a whiney and moronic child who only wants to fight, Cyborg's origin is half of the film and is dull, Billy Batson (Shazam AKA Captain Marvel) is a thief and a pr-ck, Batman is overpowered while the whole movie keeps reiterating that he has no powers, Flash is pretty much pointless, Green Lantern (who is supposed to be comic relief) is incredibly annoying, it's pretty much nonstop action, the voice acting is atrocious, the character designs are horrendous, and the animation is so wanna be anime and it's sickening. After this, Unbound, and Flashpoint Paradox I can say that I'm officially done with DC's animated films.

Son of Batman looks like it'll be great fun, and will offer an opportunity to explore Batman's character and world more, while also being based (and pretty faithfully apparently) to Morrison's fantastic run.

Except for, you know, shoehorning Deathstroke into yet another thing. DC's ruined that character for me now. Remember in New Teen Titans when Beast Boy and him just TALKED their problems out? Whatever happened to him? HE was badass.

Again, I'm not trying to be so negative, I just got my hopes up that this would be better since I used to really enjoy DC's DTV animated films

 

[DIrishB]

* SPOILER *

I might actually believe that except for the fact you enjoyed Ultimates 3.

Besides, cross dressing isn't the same as being transgendered. And it wasn't making fun of the fact the guy cross dressed, it was making fun of his hypocrisy for ragging on Wonder Woman in public while dressing up as her in a vain attempt to understand her power. I think you missed the point, man.

1. In my opinion The Ultimates 3 is better. 2. Absolutely.

And that blows me away. You're entitled to your opinions and I agree with you in some regards, but you're seriously telling me shallow, immature, sloppy characterization is okay in Ultimates 3 (and I'd love you to try to explain how it's not) but not okay in certain (much smaller) instances in this movie?

Cyborg was in Teen Titans. I'll give Captain Marvel, but not Cyborg. Everyone I've ever talked to knows who Cyborg is even though they've never read a comic in their life.

I'd bet you any amount of money the vast majority of non-comic reading people will recognize Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, and Flash before Cyborg or Shazam.

I found the costumes to be incredibly ugly, but I hate the New 52 costumes too so that is part of it.

I disagree. I liked them. And again, the animation/action was very fluid and nicely drawn.

My original short review of this was

Justice League: War is one of the worst films I've seen in a while. Superman is a massively aggressive d-ck who just wants to hit things, Wonder Woman is a whiney and moronic child who only wants to fight, Cyborg's origin is half of the film and is dull, Billy Batson (Shazam AKA Captain Marvel) is a thief and a pr-ck, Batman is overpowered while the whole movie keeps reiterating that he has no powers, Flash is pretty much pointless, Green Lantern (who is supposed to be comic relief) is incredibly annoying, it's pretty much nonstop action, the voice acting is atrocious, the character designs are horrendous, and the animation is so wanna be anime and it's sickening. After this, Unbound, and Flashpoint Paradox I can say that I'm officially done with DC's animated films.

Let's be honest, every classification you made there was a complete oversimplification and not at all fair. Superman wasn't a "dick", he just wasn't the big blue Boy Scout either. Every other "description" you gave every other character was completely short sighted and dismissive. If you don't like it that's fine, but at least give it a fair description and not resort to insane exaggeration... especially when taking into account your lenient attitude towards Ultimates 3's crapfest.

Except for, you know, shoehorning Deathstroke into yet another thing. DC's ruined that character for me now.

So you're passing judgement based off only a trailer? Yes, that seems entirely reasonable, especially given the strength of the source material.

Remember in New Teen Titans when Beast Boy and him just TALKED their problems out?

No, I never read it.

Whatever happened to him? HE was badass. Again, I'm not trying to be so negative, I just got my hopes up that this would be better since I used to really enjoy DC's DTV animated films

Hey, your opinion is your opinion, and you're entitled to it, but I just am having trouble reconciling your forgiveness for Ultimates 3 (where characters were extremely one-dimensional, not realistically motivated, and seemed only capable of punching and watching sex tapes) while finding so many faults with this film.

Sure, some lines were dumb in JL-War, and didn't serve to justifiably characterize or expand their characterizations, but that's about the only fault I could find with it. I found exponentially more with Ultimates 3.

 

[DIrishB]

Also, it's important to keep in mind this is very closely based on the first New 52 JLA comic arc. If you didn't like that arc I can understand not liking the movie that's very faithfully adapted from it.

It's also important to stop holding so tightly to previous incarnations of the characters and expecting them to behave and act in an idealized version that doesn't fit the reboot version.

There are still tens of thousands of comics from the last 30 years or more which offer those versions of those characters, there's nothing wrong with trying something new. Granted sometimes that doesn't work out, but I haven't really read any really decent complaints. Most reviews for the movie are split down the middle, with most complaints focusing on the animation "looking too anime" (which is weird since it's distinctly not very anime in my opinion) or the somewhat justifiable complaints about some of the dialogue/characterization.

I agree with those complaints in part, but overall it was an enjoyable movie.

 

[wyokid]

I might actually believe that except for the fact you enjoyed Ultimates 3.

From this point on I'm ignoring anything that has The Ultimates 3 because this isn't about The Ultimates 3 and comparing it to The Ultimates 3 is like comparing it to Schindler's List (I'm not saying The Ultimates 3 is on the same level as Schindler's List. I just pulled a random film name out of thin air) because they're both two completely different things.

Besides, cross dressing isn't the same as being transgendered. And it wasn't making fun of the fact the guy cross dressed, it was making fun of his hypocrisy for ragging on Wonder Woman in public while dressing up as her in a vain attempt to understand her power. I think you missed the point, man.

Only crossdressing is incredibly part of a transgendered person's life and the film presents it as something emasculating that is meant to be seen as humorous and mocked. You may not find it offensive but I, and several other people, did.

So you're passing judgement based off only a trailer? Yes, that seems entirely reasonable, especially given the strength of the source material.

I'm not passing judgement on the film, I'm passing judgement on the trailer. The trailer was not appealing to me even though I loved Grant Morrison's entire run and was excited when they announced this film (apart from the fact that we're getting yet another movie about Batman).

No, I never read it.

Oh man! You totally need to! Actually, you should read the entirety of New Teen Titans. It's what the show was based off of and are some of the greatest comics ever written.

Also, it's important to keep in mind this is very closely based on the first New 52 JLA comic arc. If you didn't like that arc I can understand not liking the movie that's very faithfully adapted from it.

I thought it was really bad. I mean REALLY bad and I was hoping that the film would fix it but somehow it made it worse

It's also important to stop holding so tightly to previous incarnations of the characters and expecting them to behave and act in an idealized version that doesn't fit the reboot version.

It's not that I'm holding on to past versions, it's that I find the new versions incredibly shallow made of annoyances and jerks. It's the whole "modern" Authority and Millar's Ultimates take on them and that kind of stuff makes me sick to my stomach. ESPECIALLY when they kill.

 

[Captain Canuck]

Oh man! You totally need to! Actually, you should read the entirety of New Teen Titans. It's what the show was based off of and are some of the greatest comics ever written.

This is absolutely true.

It's not that I'm holding on to past versions, it's that I find the new versions incredibly shallow made of annoyances and jerks. It's the whole "modern" Authority and Millar's Ultimates take on them and that kind of stuff makes me sick to my stomach. ESPECIALLY when they kill.

Huh, which is why you didn't like the characterization of Spidey/Peter Parker in The Amazing Spider-Man (movie).

So as I understand it, your biggest problem with a comic or comic-based movie is when the characters are portrayed as what you consider to be jerks. I can see not liking Millar's Ultimates for that reason. And Ultimates 3 really departed from that tone and those characterizations. So while everyone else was saying, "What the crap, Loeb completely screwed up the characters and wrote maybe the most messy story I've ever tried to read," your reaction was, "Oh man, I'm so glad that Loeb changed the characterization of the Ultimates and made them less jerk-ish." I haven't read any New 52 stuff or watched the movie in question, but it seems like you had similar problems with it.

Is that a fair analysis?

 

[DIrishB]

From this point on I'm ignoring anything that has The Ultimates 3 because this isn't about The Ultimates 3 and comparing it to The Ultimates 3 is like comparing it to Schindler's List (I'm not saying The Ultimates 3 is on the same level as Schindler's List. I just pulled a random film name out of thin air) because they're both two completely different things.

Fair enough.

Only crossdressing is incredibly part of a transgendered person's life and the film presents it as something emasculating that is meant to be seen as humorous and mocked. You may not find it offensive but I, and several other people, did.

Again, I think you're just misreading it. The joke was regarding that guy's hypocrisy, least in my opinion.

I'm not passing judgement on the film, I'm passing judgement on the trailer. The trailer was not appealing to me even though I loved Grant Morrison's entire run and was excited when they announced this film (apart from the fact that we're getting yet another movie about Batman).

That's because this year is Batman's 75th anniversary, so there's a good reason. Much like last year was Superman's 75th anniversary and saw Man of Steel's release.

Oh man! You totally need to! Actually, you should read the entirety of New Teen Titans. It's what the show was based off of and are some of the greatest comics ever written.

Eh, Teen Titans has never appealed to me.

I thought it was really bad. I mean REALLY bad and I was hoping that the film would fix it but somehow it made it worse It's not that I'm holding on to past versions, it's that I find the new versions incredibly shallow made of annoyances and jerks. It's the whole "modern" Authority and Millar's Ultimates take on them and that kind of stuff makes me sick to my stomach. ESPECIALLY when they kill.

I think that's an incredibly simplistic way of looking at it. Overall, yes, superheroes shouldn't kill, however there are some instances when they're not left with much choice. Furthermore, Millar's Authority and Ultimates were firmly grounded in the military industrial complex setting, so the idea of killing bad guys does go hand in hand with that.