Civil War series discussion (spoilers)

How would you rate Civil War?


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So, anyone else noticed all the foreshadowing of Frank Castle taking up the mantle of Captain America?

Horrible.

Actually, I thought that too. And what Spiderman said in the previous issue might confirm that. I don't think he'd be as noble as Cap... I could see him with the shield and everything and toting an m16 around like nobody's business.
 
Here's something. . .

Civil War: The Return was a thrown-together piece of trash created at the last second to fill a shipping slot. It was supposed to introduce Captain Marvel back into the MU because he was appearing in Civil War.

But he appears in one freakin' dialogue-less panel with no explanation in the whole series.

So what? They introduced him just to make that one appearance? Or were they bringing him back and they decided to throw him in at the last second to tie it into Civil War? Was Civil War 7 delayed so they could wedge Captain Marvel into a shot?

I am both confused and irate.
 
Here's something. . .

Civil War: The Return was a thrown-together piece of trash created at the last second to fill a shipping slot. It was supposed to introduce Captain Marvel back into the MU because he was appearing in Civil War.

But he appears in one freakin' dialogue-less panel with no explanation in the whole series.

So what? They introduced him just to make that one appearance? Or were they bringing him back and they decided to throw him in at the last second to tie it into Civil War? Was Civil War 7 delayed so they could wedge Captain Marvel into a shot?

I am both confused and irate.

Yeah, moronic.

I don't know so this is only a guess, but I would guess that the idea came late and he wasn't in the original plans. They dropped him into the one scene because he had already been introduced. I mean come on, Captain Marvel returning from the dead? That's huge! And appearing in one of the biggest comic stories in years? He would appear in more than one panel if it was planned all along.
 
But isn't this Captain Marvel not from the dead? Wasn't it said he's from the past?

But yeah, if he was planned all along, he would've had a much bigger role in this whole thing.
 
But isn't this Captain Marvel not from the dead? Wasn't it said he's from the past?

But yeah, if he was planned all along, he would've had a much bigger role in this whole thing.

Were they that desperate that they had to clone Thor bot and bring in Marvel from the past? This better be introduced in Young Avengers or I'm going to be pissed. Thouroughly.....
 
*sighs in relief*

Well, that's over. .. Wait, what's all this Initiative stuff? Agggh! It's not over!

The interesting thing to me is that the purpose of Civil War was to shake up the Marvel Universe a bit (any store owner will tell you that you have to move the merchandise displays around, even if you don't get new merchandise). So how long will this last? Which writers will carry it forward, which writers will just ignore it?
 
Fine, you win this one. NOW you have me confused. Who the **** did bring him back. DId he pull himself or what. Maybe Exiles can fix this problem. Isn't that what they do?
I don't have the issue as I gave it to my friend, but Captain Marvel explained it that he was "pulled" or something like that into the time. No one did it on purpose. It's not like Iron Man went, "Hey, let's get Captain Marvel from the past, before he died and all, so he can be our warden and make a small cameo in our final battle."

He had appeared, and without any questions or anything, Iron Man, Sentry, and others decided to make him the warden of the Negative Zone prison and use him on their side.
 
Someone on another forum said this of Civil War:

F.N. Spider-Man said:
All in all, the story would have had the same result if Galactus came by — picked up S.H.E.I.L.D., the F.F., Avengers, etc in his giant hand — shook them all together real good — and just threw the results on a table. VIOLA! We would have our new super groups.

:lol:
 
I don't have the issue as I gave it to my friend, but Captain Marvel explained it that he was "pulled" or something like that into the time. No one did it on purpose. It's not like Iron Man went, "Hey, let's get Captain Marvel from the past, before he died and all, so he can be our warden and make a small cameo in our final battle."

He had appeared, and without any questions or anything, Iron Man, Sentry, and others decided to make him the warden of the Negative Zone prison and use him on their side.

Wow, i feel stupified. i guess death is really dumbed down now.
 
So I just finished reading Civil War, and how I laughed. Not at the top trumps of an ending ("I have MY super army!" "Oh yeah? Thor! I choose you!" And then - those guys do nothing. Seriously, it was like ****ing Rock-Paper-Scissors.), I kept laughing because I couldn't stop thinking of Jeeves and Wooster.

For those of you who don't know, Jeeves and Wooster was a series of short stories written by PG Wodehouse, about a young man (Wooster) and his butler (Jeevers). It was televised in England and starred Hugh Laurie (or "Dr House" as you know him) as Wooster, and Stephen Fry as Jeeves. The show was very funny.

The stories were all farces and essentially revolved around the concept that Wooster is asked to do some task by someone with power over him, such as his tyrannical Aunt Agatha. This task would be going to meet people, looking after family members, or marrying a girl. In all cases, this task is something Wooster absolutely abhors doing, and desperately creates a ridiculously convoluted plan to somehow, get out of the task. All he succeeds in doing is making it ten times worse. As this happens, Jeeves watches Wooster's own demise, and then, saves him from certain doom by performing a much simpler, precise, and clever plan. It's a hoot.

Anyhow, one line of the show, I remember quite fondly is, after Wooster has explained to Jeeves a ludicrous plan, Jeeves, polite as ever, clears his throat and calmly says (to the best of my memory) "I do believe, sir, that the suggested plan has too many variables to be considered plausible."

So, I couldn't help but think of Captain America as Bertie Wooster.

Cap's plan, his endgame plan, is to raid the prison, and free everyone. They don't have much time as the portal won't be open forever. However, Iron Man has set a trap, using his spy, Tigra! Cunning! But Cap knew this already! Double cunning! And his spy, Hulking, has been Hank Pym all this time and has let everyone out so that they can have a fight!

So, to sum up: Cap, who has the resources to free everyone in the negative zone, stages an enormous fight scene in an alternate reality to beat up his enemies so that they can free everyone in the negative zone.

He should've had a Jeeves. Jeeves would've expressed getting Hulking to free everyone, y'know... whenever he wanted.

What's the purpose of the staged fight? They can't 'arrest' Tony and the others. They're outlaws.

As for the ending, where Cap surrenders - I think this is a nonsense ending. I'll explain why: The whole premise of the series is that the best of friends, the world's greatest superheroes, will become so diametrically opposed that they will fight unto the bitter end to defend what they believe is right. I always had a problem with this, and I felt that problem quite strongly when I saw Spidey punch Mr Fantastic in the head - these guys don't fight each other. Because not one of them would throw the first punch. Seriously, who throws the first punch? Apparently, Millar thinks Cap will do so in retribution for something Iron Man did.

I don't buy it. I don't buy these guys fighting. But, I felt, it's not fair of me. This is the point of the series, after all. That these two guys fight. And while I might not agree, I should, I suppose, give in to that leap of faith, and let Mr Millar tell me that hero vs hero fight scene he's been working on. It's why I stopped reading it, but I felt I should put that problem aside, and finish it, by reading the last three issues.

And the ending is: Cap decides that it's wrong for them to be fighting.

...

Whatever.

I like Cap's reasoning, I really do. But... Cap felt that way before Civil War. He's regressed. The story's meaning regressed. It's become Ultimate Marvel, but with more characters.

I think, instead of Cap punching Iron Man in #3 or whatever, he should've surrendered then and there. And that's if anyone would be willing to actually hit Cap. Hell - even the Punisher, the goddamn mutha-****ing PUNISHER wouldn't lift a hand against Cap. Even after he beat the crap out of him.

I don't buy these guys would fight each other, and the entire plot of this series is, it's whole drive is to say "Hero Fight", it's a giant contrived plotline to get all these guys to fight, but the climactic point of the series is: "Heroes don't fight one another."

...

How self-defeating can you be?

I shouldn't have read it. Sorry.
 
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So I just finished reading Civil War, and how I laughed. Not at the top trumps of an ending ("I have MY super army!" "Oh yeah? Thor! I choose you!" And then - those guys do nothing. Seriously, it was like ****ing Rock-Paper-Scissors.), I kept laughing because I couldn't stop thinking of Jeeves and Wooster.

For those of you who don't know, Jeeves and Wooster was a series of short stories written by PG Wodehouse, about a young man (Wooster) and his butler (Jeevers). It was televised in England and starred Hugh Laurie (or "Dr House" as you know him) as Wooster, and Stephen Fry as Jeeves. The show was very funny.

The stories were all farces and essentially revolved around the concept that Wooster is asked to do some task by someone with power over him, such as his tyrannical Aunt Agatha. This task would be going to meet people, looking after family members, or marrying a girl. In all cases, this task is something Wooster absolutely abhors doing, and desperately creates a ridiculously convoluted plan to somehow, get out of the task. All he succeeds in doing is making it ten times worse. As this happens, Jeeves watches Wooster's own demise, and then, saves him from certain doom by performing a much simpler, precise, and clever plan. It's a hoot.

Anyhow, one line of the show, I remember quite fondly is, after Wooster has explained to Jeeves a ludicrous plan, Jeeves, polite as ever, clears his throat and calmly says (to the best of my memory) "I do believe, sir, that the suggested plan has too many variables to be considered plausible."

So, I couldn't help but think of Captain America as Bertie Wooster.

Cap's plan, his endgame plan, is to raid the prison, and free everyone. They don't have much time as the portal won't be open forever. However, Iron Man has set a trap, using his spy, Tigra! Cunning! But Cap knew this already! Double cunning! And his spy, Hulking, has been Hank Pym all this time and has let everyone out so that they can have a fight!

So, to sum up: Cap, who has the resources to free everyone in the negative zone, stages an enormous fight scene in an alternate reality to beat up his enemies so that they can free everyone in the negative zone.

He should've had a Jeeves. Jeeves would've expressed getting Hulking to free everyone, y'know... whenever he wanted.

What's the purpose of the staged fight? They can't 'arrest' Tony and the others. They're outlaws.

As for the ending, where Cap surrenders - I think this is a nonsense ending. I'll explain why: The whole premise of the series is that the best of friends, the world's greatest superheroes, will become so diametrically opposed that they will fight unto the bitter end to defend what they believe is right. I always had a problem with this, and I felt that problem quite strongly when I saw Spidey punch Mr Fantastic in the head - these guys don't fight each other. Because not one of them would throw the first punch. Seriously, who throws the first punch? Apparently, Millar thinks Cap will do so in retribution for something Iron Man did.

I don't buy it. I don't buy these guys fighting. But, I felt, it's not fair of me. This is the point of the series, after all. That these two guys fight. And while I might not agree, I should, I suppose, give in to that leap of faith, and let Mr Millar tell me that hero vs hero fight scene he's been working on. It's why I stopped reading it, but I felt I should put that problem aside, and finish it, by reading the last three issues.

And the ending is: Cap decides that it's wrong for them to be fighting.

...

Whatever.

I like Cap's reasoning, I really do. But... Cap felt that way before Civil War. He's regressed. The story's meaning regressed. It's become Ultimate Marvel, but with more characters.

I think, instead of Cap punching Iron Man in #3 or whatever, he should've surrendered then and there. And that's if anyone would be willing to actually hit Cap. Hell - even the Punisher, the goddamn mutha-****ing PUNISHER wouldn't lift a hand against Cap. Even after he beat the crap out of him.

I don't buy these guys would fight each other, and the entire plot of this series is, it's whole drive is to say "Hero Fight", it's a giant contrived plotline to get all these guys to fight, but the climactic point of the series is: "Heroes don't fight one another."

...

How self-defeating can you be?

I shouldn't have read it. Sorry.


Wow... I never saw it that way. I agree that it really doesn't make sense for them to duke it out. You'd think they would have approached this progressively i nthe beginning. then again, it all goes back to... wait for it.... Secret War.
 

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