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  1. #16
    Legendary wyokid's Avatar
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    Re: Ultimately cancelled?

    Man, I loved the first Ultimate Iron Man so much. It was so out there, Tony was more sympathetic and interesting then the drunk ******* that Millar was writing, it had some zany sci-fi, and Stane was so freaking diabolical. Card's an ******* but man is he a good writer. Would have loved to see that Superman story, too bad the [insert really nasty insult here] got in the way. Lord forbid someone has a different opinion than you.

  2. #17
    Innocent Bystander themightygwynne's Avatar
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    I liked the origin but and how he'd always been making the suit throughout his life but the ending sucked and I don't like how they gave him a reason for drinking, that's a key component of his character, his drinking problem.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyokid View Post
    They still have their highest quality and top writer on one of the books. Have since 2000.
    Bendis himself is not a high quality writer. High quantity, definitely. But most of his work is below average.

    USM is an exception. The problem is that the book as *ZERO* direction, just like most of Bendis's other work. I've never seen a writer as bad as him who can't hold to a storyline and develop it completely.

    Bendis is not a top writer. At one point it might have looked like he was going to be, but he is soooooo mediocre (even though he has created some great works).

    Quote Originally Posted by wyokid View Post
    Man, I loved the first Ultimate Iron Man so much. It was so out there
    That's one way to describe it.
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  4. #19
    The Timeline Guy DIrishB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyokid View Post
    Man, I loved the first Ultimate Iron Man so much. It was so out there, Tony was more sympathetic and interesting then the drunk ******* that Millar was writing, it had some zany sci-fi, and Stane was so freaking diabolical. Card's an ******* but man is he a good writer. Would have loved to see that Superman story, too bad the [insert really nasty insult here] got in the way. Lord forbid someone has a different opinion than you.
    You're entitled to your opinion all you want, just don't be surprised when someone disagrees and gives their reasons why, which I'm about to do:

    Ultimate Iron Man, after Ultimates 3, is the absolute worst work done in the Ultimate universe.

    First, Tony was portrayed as a drunk in Ultimates, yes, but that's an intrinsic part of who the character was in the 616 universe. The only difference is he's a full on drunk in the Ultimate universe and not a recovering alcoholic. Given the brain tumor and his insanely high intelligence, I can understand it.

    And yes, Ultimate Iron Man was so "out there", but not in a good way. Card attempted to pointlessly alter Tony's abilities. Instead of him being a normal human with super intelligence in a suit, Card turned him into a Wolverine-esque type character in terms of his ability to regrow limbs and body parts, something which is irrevocably stupid and unnecessary for Iron Man.

    Card has written some great sci-fi novels in the past, but his take on Iron Man was an ego driven attempt to reboot a character who'd already been rebooted. It was unnecessary and moronic, as I said, and also completely went against continuity since Tony at no point had shown the ability to heal himself. Ultimate Iron Man was Card's attempt to wank his ego off using Ultimate Iron Man. And it showed.

    If Card wanted to tell such a story, let him do it with original characters. That might've made it more forgivable, except for the damn monkey brains. So stupid.

  5. #20
    Innocent Bystander themightygwynne's Avatar
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    What did you think of the ultimate comics: ironman story? Devil in the armour? Something like that?

  6. #21
    The Timeline Guy DIrishB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by themightygwynne View Post
    What did you think of the ultimate comics: ironman story? Devil in the armour? Something like that?
    That was ok. Not exactly memorable or worthwhile, but much better than the Card Ult Iron Man stuff. I liked the Ult Iron Man vs Hulk mini, though it's been awhile since I read it.

  7. #22
    Legendary wyokid's Avatar
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    Re: Ultimately cancelled?

    Quote Originally Posted by DIrishB View Post
    You're entitled to your opinion all you want, just don't be surprised when someone disagrees and gives their reasons why, which I'm about to do:

    Ultimate Iron Man, after Ultimates 3, is the absolute worst work done in the Ultimate universe.

    First, Tony was portrayed as a drunk in Ultimates, yes, but that's an intrinsic part of who the character was in the 616 universe. The only difference is he's a full on drunk in the Ultimate universe and not a recovering alcoholic. Given the brain tumor and his insanely high intelligence, I can understand it.

    And yes, Ultimate Iron Man was so "out there", but not in a good way. Card attempted to pointlessly alter Tony's abilities. Instead of him being a normal human with super intelligence in a suit, Card turned him into a Wolverine-esque type character in terms of his ability to regrow limbs and body parts, something which is irrevocably stupid and unnecessary for Iron Man.

    Card has written some great sci-fi novels in the past, but his take on Iron Man was an ego driven attempt to reboot a character who'd already been rebooted. It was unnecessary and moronic, as I said, and also completely went against continuity since Tony at no point had shown the ability to heal himself. Ultimate Iron Man was Card's attempt to wank his ego off using Ultimate Iron Man. And it showed.

    If Card wanted to tell such a story, let him do it with original characters. That might've made it more forgivable, except for the damn monkey brains. So stupid.
    I think that's why people hate it and why I love it. I HATED Ultimate Tony before that. HATED. Now thanks to Card, Bendis, Loeb, and Ellis I love him.

  8. #23
    The Timeline Guy DIrishB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyokid View Post
    I think that's why people hate it and why I love it. I HATED Ultimate Tony before that. HATED. Now thanks to Card, Bendis, Loeb, and Ellis I love him.
    I still think Millar wrote the best Ultimate Tony Stark. He brought us the best iteration of the lovable scoundrel that Tony is, which I think largely inspired the movie version portrayed by RDJ (albeit with substantially less drinking). Not to say it's completely the same or not also heavily influenced by the 616 version as well, but I always get the vibe that RDJ is channeling a toned down version of Ultimate Tony in his performances.

    And in your opinion, how was giving Ultimate Tony regenerative powers a la Wolverine a good thing? It was stupid, pointless, amateurish, and a clumsy and unneeded retcon, which was quickly in and of itself retconned (thank God) because it was so moronic. How is that good writing to you? Like I said if that's something Card wanted to explore he should've done so with an original character, not one who'd already had an extensive depiction in said comic universe NEVER REGENERATING because he's not frigging Wolverine. And nano-monkeys...really. Jesus.

    Also, I don't see what Loeb ever did with Ultimate Iron Man that was noteworthy, worthwhile, etc. I was horrified by everything Loeb did in the Ultimate verse, because it was all mind-numbing, shallow crap.
    Last edited by DIrishB; 07-09-2014 at 03:24 AM.

  9. #24
    The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65 Captain Canuck's Avatar
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    Re: Ultimately cancelled?

    Quote Originally Posted by DIrishB View Post

    Ultimate Iron Man, after Ultimates 3, is the absolute worst work done in the Ultimate universe.
    Really? Worse than Ultimatum and the Ultimate Hulk annual and Ultimate Power?

    It was frustratingly out of sync with the previously established Iron Man, but at least the story was coherent. The second one was also way worse than the first.
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  10. #25
    Legendary wyokid's Avatar
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    Re: Ultimately cancelled?

    Quote Originally Posted by DIrishB View Post
    I still think Millar wrote the best Ultimate Tony Stark. He brought us the best iteration of the lovable scoundrel that Tony is, which I think largely inspired the movie version portrayed by RDJ (albeit with substantially less drinking). Not to say it's completely the same or not also heavily influenced by the 616 version as well, but I always get the vibe that RDJ is channeling a toned down version of Ultimate Tony in his performances.
    For me he wasn't lovable. For me he was a giant emotionally void ******* who didn't learn from his mistakes or care about anything but himself. Everyone was just a giant prick under Millar. Cap was a xenophobic bully and a mockery of the original character, Bruce was a whiney and emo horndog, Thor was a massive Liberal hippie, Betty was an emotionally manipulative *****, Hank and Janet were fine until the issue with them just beating the hell out of each other, Black Widow and Hawkeye are introduced by slaughtering not only bad guys but innocent people, and Nick Fury was just kind of there. Ugh.

    Quote Originally Posted by DIrishB View Post
    And in your opinion, how was giving Ultimate Tony regenerative powers a la Wolverine a good thing? It was stupid, pointless, amateurish, and a clumsy and unneeded retcon, which was quickly in and of itself retconned (thank God) because it was so moronic. How is that good writing to you? Like I said if that's something Card wanted to explore he should've done so with an original character, not one who'd already had an extensive depiction in said comic universe NEVER REGENERATING because he's not frigging Wolverine. And nano-monkeys...really. Jesus.
    Is your problem not the power but that it goes against continuity? My belief is that continuity is there to serve a story and not the other way around. If Millar wanted to he could have squeezed it in. Instead he decided to not only make it a cartoon but then mock it. Regardless of how you feel about the story that's just not a cool thing to do. I thought was a cool power (loved how his whole body was a brain) and it even got referenced in Ultimate Human.

    Quote Originally Posted by DIrishB View Post
    Also, I don't see what Loeb ever did with Ultimate Iron Man that was noteworthy, worthwhile, etc. I was horrified by everything Loeb did in the Ultimate verse, because it was all mind-numbing, shallow crap.
    I LOVED the sex tape. In the first two volumes they were obsessed with PR and a sex tape with not only two members but the fact that one of them was a traitor was just juicy. Then it was revealed to be Ultron behind it and it got juicier. I also loved his relationship with Carol Danvers. Really wish Jeph Loeb could have been able to continue with that. I really wish the original plans for Ultimatum happened (was originally MUCH smaller before Bendis decided that it should be an event) because as much as I loved New Ultimates The Ultimates 4 with Ed McGuinness and an actual story arc for Zarda would have been epic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Canuck View Post
    It was frustratingly out of sync with the previously established Iron Man, but at least the story was coherent. The second one was also way worse than the first.
    I will say that I did not enjoy the second one that much. Everyone just sort of devolved into psychopaths.
    Last edited by wyokid; 07-09-2014 at 10:40 AM.

  11. #26
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    Re: Ultimately cancelled?

    Just going to say this: Hawkeye and Widow didn't kill any innocents. Everyone in both buildings were alien sleeper agents.

  12. #27
    Legendary wyokid's Avatar
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    Re: Ultimately cancelled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drunken Pickle View Post
    Just going to say this: Hawkeye and Widow didn't kill any innocents. Everyone in both buildings were alien sleeper agents.
    I refuse to believe that a building in New York only had sleeper agents in it. That's unrealistic and silly. ESPECIALLY in a comic that focused on "realism". That's like saying no one died in the final act of Man of Steel.
    Last edited by wyokid; 07-09-2014 at 12:19 PM.

  13. #28
    The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65 Captain Canuck's Avatar
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    Re: Ultimately cancelled?

    Quote Originally Posted by wyokid View Post
    I refuse to believe that a building in New York only had sleeper agents in it. That's unrealistic and silly. ESPECIALLY in a comic that focused on "realism". That's like saying no one died in the final act of Man of Steel.
    Didn't it show them turning back into the Chitauri when they had been shot?
    The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.
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  14. #29
    Legendary wyokid's Avatar
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    Re: Ultimately cancelled?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Canuck View Post
    Didn't it show them turning back into the Chitauri when they had been shot?
    No it did not. You're thinking of Skrulls in the regular universe.

  15. #30
    Innocent Bystander themightygwynne's Avatar
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    I think the good thing with the ultimate universe used to be that it would come back and go : actually this is weird isn't it?

    Like with Thor I loved ultimates 2 and everyone going? Wait...this guy is a god? And with cap there was much more if the out of time stuff and I guess 50s jock guy would be a bit of a douche.

    Giant man...when you look at it he is kinda useless.

    But when that had stopped and the examination had sort of stopped suddenly they had to come up with new stories and new ideas and that's when it became apparent that for all the clever mirror holding these were much the same characters, and suddenly nothing new or fresh was coming out and it began to feel very much like the 616

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