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Post-Cataclysm Ultimate Relaunch: All-New...Again - Page 3

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  1. #31
    Legendary wyokid's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Cataclysm Ultimate Relaunch: All-New...Again

    Wait...people didn't like the Ultimate Clone Saga? Are you kidding me? That was one of the best stories.

  2. #32
    The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65 Captain Canuck's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Cataclysm Ultimate Relaunch: All-New...Again

    Quote Originally Posted by wyokid View Post
    Wait...people didn't like the Ultimate Clone Saga? Are you kidding me? That was one of the best stories.
    It was interesting until MJ got turned into a Sasquatch and Doc Ock became Magneto.
    The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.
    1 Timothy 1:15

  3. #33
    Administrator E's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Cataclysm Ultimate Relaunch: All-New...Again

    Quote Originally Posted by wyokid View Post
    Wait...people didn't like the Ultimate Clone Saga? Are you kidding me? That was one of the best stories.
    It was hands down, no questions asked, the WORST USM story.
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  4. #34
    Legendary wyokid's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Cataclysm Ultimate Relaunch: All-New...Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Canuck View Post
    It was interesting until MJ got turned into a Sasquatch and Doc Ock became Magneto.
    Those were some of the best parts! That whole thing was one huge reveal after another. It was such an exciting read!

  5. #35
    The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65 Captain Canuck's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Cataclysm Ultimate Relaunch: All-New...Again

    Quote Originally Posted by wyokid View Post
    Those were some of the best parts! That whole thing was one huge reveal after another. It was such an exciting read!
    Clearly we have different tastes.
    The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.
    1 Timothy 1:15

  6. #36
    Legendary wyokid's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Cataclysm Ultimate Relaunch: All-New...Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Canuck View Post
    Clearly we have different tastes.
    I've spent years on other comic forums and this is literally the first time I've heard of people not liking this story.

  7. #37
    The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65 Captain Canuck's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Cataclysm Ultimate Relaunch: All-New...Again

    Quote Originally Posted by wyokid View Post
    I've spent years on other comic forums and this is literally the first time I've heard of people not liking this story.
    Clearly the world has gone mad and this forum is the last bastion of truth.
    The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.
    1 Timothy 1:15

  8. #38
    My Boom-Boom's mostly gay Zombipanda's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Cataclysm Ultimate Relaunch: All-New...Again

    Quote Originally Posted by wyokid View Post
    Those were some of the best parts! That whole thing was one huge reveal after another. It was such an exciting read!
    One of my problems with Bendis' writing is that things just happen without much reason or consequence, and interesting themes are developed but never really explored. Clone Saga was the quintessential example of this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darren G. Davis, President of Bluewater Comics
    "We're sold in Jo-Ann Fabrics. That's success to me."

  9. #39
    Administrator E's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Cataclysm Ultimate Relaunch: All-New...Again

    Quote Originally Posted by wyokid View Post
    Those were some of the best parts! That whole thing was one huge reveal after another. It was such an exciting read!
    It takes all kinds...
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  10. #40
    UC's Resident Genetic Recombinator Ultimate Houde's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Cataclysm Ultimate Relaunch: All-New...Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombipanda View Post
    One of my problems with Bendis' writing is that things just happen without much reason or consequence, and interesting themes are developed but never really explored. Clone Saga was the quintessential example of this.
    Kinda like Geoff Johns writes now, back when he wrote JSA, it was different, he at least gave indications things were progressing somewhere, now its OMG PANDORA, OMG PANDORA'S SKULL!, OMFG CRIME SNDICATE!, OMFFG LEX LUTHRO CAPTAIN COLD IN JSTICE LEAGGUEUE!

  11. #41
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    Re: Post-Cataclysm Ultimate Relaunch: All-New...Again

    Quote Originally Posted by E View Post
    It was hands down, no questions asked, the WORST USM story.
    I actually think that WAR OF THE SYMBIOTES was the worst USM story, and the only one that was outright bad. What a departure from VENOM (one of my favourite Spider-man stories ever).

    Quote Originally Posted by Zombipanda
    One of my problems with Bendis' writing is that things just happen without much reason or consequence, and interesting themes are developed but never really explored. Clone Saga was the quintessential example of this.
    While I may not hate it, I have no great love for CLONE SAGA; it was probably the period where I anticipated each issue of USM the most month-to-month, but the whole of it is quite lacking, and it's for these reasons exactly. Hell, Jessica's still around, and NOTHING of interest has been done with her! But putting aside nonsense like MJGoblin, what irritates me the most is the whole bit with Richard Parker. The entire 100th issue was spent on him, and then he's just a clone that conveniently hyper-ages and dies at the arc's conclusion. It was a big event that changed almost nothing, save Aunt May knowing Peter's identity.

    That said, I don't hate Octomagnetopus at all, and I actually like Gwarnage (well, in theory; again, nothing interesting is ever done with her). I can tell that the first CARNAGE arc probably isn't well-loved around here, but I really like what it does with the concept of Power and Resonsibility and how it extends that concept to Peter's biology. It's certainly leagues better than regular Carnage. I kind of wish more of that smaller, personal, thematic stuff was done with USM's "symbiotes", but alas.

  12. #42
    Super-human Lithium's Avatar
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  13. #43
    My Boom-Boom's mostly gay Zombipanda's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Cataclysm Ultimate Relaunch: All-New...Again

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate Houde View Post
    Kinda like Geoff Johns writes now, back when he wrote JSA, it was different, he at least gave indications things were progressing somewhere, now its OMG PANDORA, OMG PANDORA'S SKULL!, OMFG CRIME SNDICATE!, OMFFG LEX LUTHRO CAPTAIN COLD IN JSTICE LEAGGUEUE!
    Exactly this. Johns and Bendis are similar in a lot of ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek View Post
    While I may not hate it, I have no great love for CLONE SAGA; it was probably the period where I anticipated each issue of USM the most month-to-month, but the whole of it is quite lacking, and it's for these reasons exactly. Hell, Jessica's still around, and NOTHING of interest has been done with her! But putting aside nonsense like MJGoblin, what irritates me the most is the whole bit with Richard Parker. The entire 100th issue was spent on him, and then he's just a clone that conveniently hyper-ages and dies at the arc's conclusion. It was a big event that changed almost nothing, save Aunt May knowing Peter's identity.
    I liked the Ultimate interpretation of Venom.

    But I thought Clone Saga was all wasted potential. It opened up the possibility for all sorts of explorations of nature vs. nurture and body horror (and specifically, questions of sexual identity with Jessica) but never followed through on that. Ditto the implied explanation of the impact genetic engineering would have on the corporate and criminal world. Ditto the Cable story in UXM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darren G. Davis, President of Bluewater Comics
    "We're sold in Jo-Ann Fabrics. That's success to me."

  14. #44
    The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65 Captain Canuck's Avatar
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    Re: Post-Cataclysm Ultimate Relaunch: All-New...Again

    I had no problem with the Carnage arc. The idea of Carnage being a genetic monster that was a combination of the Venom suit and the Parker's DNA was cool, I thought. And I had no problem with Gwen dying that way.

    The way they brought her back as a reconstituted carnage clone made no sense, though. They could have said that, in the first steps toward cloning, they experimented with the ideas of Doc Connors and the Parkers by trying to rejuvinate the corpse of Gwen Stacy using reverse-engineered carnage tissue. Although it worked, it left her with carnage side effects - until Venom absorbed them out of her. That's still convoluted. Really, really convoluted. But it makes WAY more sense that the direction they went. "This isn't really Gwen, it's another genetic monstrosity that also happens to be a clone of her. But close enough, right?"
    Last edited by Captain Canuck; 01-22-2014 at 04:16 PM.
    The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.
    1 Timothy 1:15

  15. #45
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    Re: Post-Cataclysm Ultimate Relaunch: All-New...Again

    See, I always thought it made sense fine: Carnage was basically a clone to begin with, albeit a "biologically unstable" one that had to feed off of people's energies (or whatever) to stabilize itself. When it didn't, its biology was in flux, hence the Carnage "look". Ben Reilly was working on the CIA clone project and would be most familiar with Connors' techniques for cloning, so it makes sense that these would at least be experimented with and improved on. Thus we have Gwarnage: a clone of Gwen using an improved (but not perfected) method of the the Connors' cloning technique that causes Gwen's biology to go into flux when under extreme stress. That she has the memories of Gwen is internally consistent too - all the clones have genetic memories, even Connors' original (I believe). It's comic-booky as all get out (and there's still the question of "why clone Gwen?"), but none of those are deal-breakers to me.

    THEN the WAR OF THE SYMBIOTES arc could have been something more than a muddy, confused, contrived mess of video game reconciliation. It would be a way to explore ideas of identity that the CLONE SAGA never had the time to tackle - Jessica is all about sexual identity, sure, but because she's effectively still her own person, Gwen would be more useful for personal identity. Maybe that lack of personal identity brings her and Eddie together (not romantically, not even in friendship, but of their own unique sort of relationship. Maybe there's an embracing of the monstrous side on his part but a rejection on Gwen's part. The arc could still end with the eradication of the Carnage effect in Gwen, and her return to being a normal person.

    So before I start writing a big-ass fanfic for this, my point is that it's really the lack of follow-up that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I know that turning Peter's supporting cast into super-powered people is kind of an issue, since it removes the "everyman loser VS anonymous hero" aspects of his character, and in that sense your version is better Cap. But I dunno - if there had been thematic follow-through, it would be as good a way as any to bring back Gwen and could be used as a way to bring together Venom and Carnage (who are otherwise completely dissimilar beings in the UU).
    Last edited by Zeek; 01-22-2014 at 08:53 PM.

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