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Thread: The Avengers by Jonathan Hickman discussion (spoliers)

  1. #16
    The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65 Captain Canuck's Avatar
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    Start with Hickman's first issue of Fantastic Four. At some point that title got cancelled and FF started. Then they brought Fantastic Four back and the two titles ran concurrently.
    Last edited by Captain Canuck; 12-08-2012 at 11:34 AM.
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  2. #17
    Administrator E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fenway View Post
    I've gotten kind of snobby about reading independent comics lately... and about hating on the big 2. Given that Hickman is writing Avengers, I think I'm going to have to send some money back their way.

    I read some Secret Warriors and enjoyed it. I didn't read all of SHIELD - Those seemed admittedly good, but not the 'signature' Hickman I've seen on other labels (or, to be fair, maybe I wasn't yet fully acquainted with that signature). For that reason, I didn't read FF, but on the strength of this issue, and given our (E) similar feelings and your recommendation, I'm going to have to get his run on that title in some form (maybe digital so its all collected)

    Thanks for the post, because I was kind of on the fence about checking FF out - can you give me any direction? By that I mean that I think FF and Fantastic Four, both by Hickman, were two different titles... did they run at the same time? I guess I'm looking for the best reading order.

    Thanks in advance!
    Hickman's run starts with number 570. It runs through to issue 588, at which point it was "cancelled" and they launched FF. FF was the main Fantastic Four book through 12 issues, then Fantastic Four 600 came out. From there, alternate between the two books through the end of his runs (Fantastic Four 600, FF 13, Fantastic Four 601, FF 14, etc.

    I thought Secret Warriors was just ok, but SHIELD was pretty brilliant. SHIELD, to me, resembles his creator-owned work much more than anything else he's done. As for his creator-owned work...I like it, but none of it is as intelligent as his Marvel work save for Nightly News, which absolutely blew me away when it came out because when it did I wasn't really reading any creator-owned books and the ones I had read before that always just kind of seemed to be excuses to explicit stories or art without really being "smart" about it. The Nightly News is smart.
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  3. #18
    UC's Resident Genetic Recombinator Ultimate Houde's Avatar
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    Re: The Avengers (Hickman) Discussion: Spoliers

    I enjoyed The Fantastic Four run UNTIL he got into the cosmic stuff. It's like he didn't even read the recent run by DnA when he wrote it, and all he did was revert the cosmic to what it was like before them.

    But until then, it was good.

  4. #19
    Vigilante fenway's Avatar
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    Re: The Avengers (Hickman) Discussion: Spoliers

    I don't mean to de-rail things here, but I have to put in a good word for Manhattan Projects. I realize that I'm pre-disposed to liking this (I like alternate history, I like WW2-era stuff, I like science fiction, and I like Jonathan Hickman ), but it has the feeling of some fantastic ideas swirling into a huge event. At first I wasn't sold on the art, but as the issues progressed, I found it impossible to picture a different style.

    Along with Saga, this is the book I look forward to most.
    I'm hopeful that Avengers joins the ranks! (see how I brought it back on topic? )

  5. #20
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    Re: The Avengers (Hickman) Discussion: Spoliers

    The Manhattan Projects is already my favourite Hickman work. It's tied with Saga as my favourite comic of the year.
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  6. #21
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    Re: The Avengers (Hickman) Discussion: Spoliers

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  7. #22
    UC's Resident Genetic Recombinator Ultimate Houde's Avatar
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    Re: The Avengers by Jonathan Hickman discussion (spoliers)

    Wasn't the white event what sparked new universe?

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate Houde View Post
    Wasn't the white event what sparked new universe?
    I never read the original New Universe but I think that's what was the catalyst for people receiving powers in newuniversal.
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  9. #24
    UC's Resident Genetic Recombinator Ultimate Houde's Avatar
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    Re: The Avengers by Jonathan Hickman discussion (spoliers)

    I wonder if it's the same 'event' then.

  10. #25
    UC's Resident Genetic Recombinator Ultimate Houde's Avatar
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    Re: The Avengers by Jonathan Hickman discussion (spoliers)

    And it looks like I was right.

  11. #26
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    Re: The Avengers by Jonathan Hickman discussion (spoliers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate Houde View Post
    And it looks like I was right.
    I saw a blog post about it yesterday but didn't read it because I haven't read this week's issue yet.
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  12. #27
    Teh Sexy Monkey Queen Ice's Avatar
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    Re: The Avengers by Jonathan Hickman discussion (spoliers)

    Hickman is a clever, clever man.
    You, me, Jean, Warren, and Hank.
    We were The Beatles, Scott.
    Don't ever forget it.
    -Iceman

  13. #28
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    Re: The Avengers by Jonathan Hickman discussion (spoliers)

    I have to admit when I read the solits for #11:

    • As Shang-Chi battles an ancient enemy, the Avengers hang out in Hong Kong’s swankiest casino.

    • Captain Marvel, Black Widow and Spider-Woman find out it doesn’t pay to gamble in the spy business.

    • Cannonball and Sunspot play craps with a bunch of AIM Agents. AND WIN!
    ...I groaned a little. It sounded a little too X-Men-playing-baseball for my tastes.

    BUT I was wrong - it was a fantastic issue with the casino stuff completely relevant to the story, great dialogue, and genuinely funny moments, especially Cannonball and Sunspot and Widow wanting to kill the terrorists.

    And while Deodato has been kind of hit and miss for me lately, he seems much improved in the last couple Avengers issues.
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  14. #29
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    Re: The Avengers by Jonathan Hickman discussion (spoliers)

    This... This just hasn't been doing it for me. I was pretty hot on it when it started but the entire thing, Avengers, New Avengers, Infinity... its all so detached and feels so clinical. Its cold. There's so little life and the scope has gone so big that I don't feel like I ever see the Avengers doing anything. It just seems to me like we're getting the cliff notes version of everything. But instead of giving us the character moments we get 3 or 4 more pages of alien worlds dieing and the Green Sword Lady and her Dog Man telling us whats happening instead of us seeing it happen.

    Its just very frustrating because I know Hickman can do some very good work and this... this just isn't. I'm giving it until the end of Infinity then I'm probably going to drop both of his Avengers books.
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  15. #30
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    Re: The Avengers by Jonathan Hickman discussion (spoliers)

    Quote Originally Posted by Friday View Post
    This... This just hasn't been doing it for me. I was pretty hot on it when it started but the entire thing, Avengers, New Avengers, Infinity... its all so detached and feels so clinical. Its cold. There's so little life and the scope has gone so big that I don't feel like I ever see the Avengers doing anything. It just seems to me like we're getting the cliff notes version of everything. But instead of giving us the character moments we get 3 or 4 more pages of alien worlds dieing and the Green Sword Lady and her Dog Man telling us whats happening instead of us seeing it happen.

    Its just very frustrating because I know Hickman can do some very good work and this... this just isn't. I'm giving it until the end of Infinity then I'm probably going to drop both of his Avengers books.
    I totally agree.

    I won't be dropping them anytime soon, because I trust Hickman and his Fantastic Four took a while to start developing (and the last third of it was phenomenal), but it IS slow to develop and detached and clinical are perfect words to describe it. It doesn't have the warmth that Fantastic Four had, even when it was moving slow.

    I think it's more the Infinity stuff than the book overall, because before the Infinity prelude stuff it was still a solid book. But Infinity has really dragged the book down. New Avengers has promise but it's the same way; just dragging. Infinity itself was a bit of a mess (the first issue anyway; I haven't read the second yet).

    The first few issues of Avengers had that same warmth and personality that was in Fantastic Four but it died off. I'm hoping Infinity will pick up but I don't have much faith; it's just so complicated and I have no idea what's going on. Maybe things will get back on track after it's over.
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